Please don't buy from the VW group (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, SEAT, etc.)

"hethoughtofcars" (hethoughtofcars) 03/02/2019 at 07:05 • Filed to: None

2

50

My very first car was a VW. It was a 1969 Beetle. It was terrible and broke down constantly. But it was my very first car and I loved it. I saved and saved (I was making $4.25/hour then) and was so happy to own my very first car. Sure, you could see the road through the rust holes in the backseat. And, yeah, the drum brakes stopped working if you drove through a puddle.. but it was my first car. And that made it awesome. My second car was an ‘89 Jetta. Another VW I loved, even if it leaked so much oil the landlord of my apartment wouldn’t let me park in the lot (because it was, in her words - typed up and placed under the wipers -, a “fire hazard”).

My mother owned an ‘03 New Beetle Turbo S. It was a blast! As long as it was driving, at least. It often times would not start and was constantly filled with mold and smelled like crayons. The spoiler that automatically deployed at 45 MPH also made a noise like something was breaking. Still, the 1.8T had 180 hp and six forward gears! In a TT you only got   170 hp routed through a 5 speed!

None of these, however, is why you should not buy from this deeply, horribly, brazenly corrupt company. At some point, VW heads did a cost benefit analysis and somehow came out with the idea that the air we breathe was not as important as making a profit. They must’ve looked at themselves and said ‘Hey, this won’t effect me! And if somehow it does...I’ll only miss a few days/months/years of my life! I need money now!’

This should be inexcusable. It is. VW makes fun cars, but poisoning the air because of a “bothersome” regulation is... well, reprehensible.

I know this “story” has faded over the years. Please don’t forget, though. The health of your loved ones, your children, and their children will be impacted by a few people who decided that making a few extra Euros was more important than the health of us (and our children).

Fuck VW

pip bip - choose Corrour > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 07:10

0

can’t disagree with you on that

their engineers need to be replaced completely

jimz > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 07:12

3

Um, are you under the assumption we don’t know about “Dieselgate?”

E92M3 > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 07:15

2

If I blacklist all the others, can I at least have Porsche? They make great cars. What if I promise to never buy a diesel?

Svend > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 07:52

0

I'm on my third petrol Skoda Superb, not giving them up, sorry. I don't think any of Skodas diesel engines were affected by dieselgate. 

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 08:03

6

If this is the hill you’re picking, there’s quite a few more brands than VW/VAG you’d want to not buy.

duurtlang > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 08:14

10

I stay far away from VWs, at least those from the last 15 years or so. Mostly because I don’t like their generic, soulless, overpriced, unreliable, white goods cars.

However, is VW morally really that much worse than other manufacturers? Yes I realize VW got caught cheating , but in real world tests they didn’t really do much worse than others. Meaning that those others are simply better at cheating.

Additionally:

They must’ve looked at themselves and said ‘Hey, this won’t effect me! And if somehow it does...I’ll only miss a few days/months/years of my life! I need money now!’

That’s true for all manufacturers.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 08:41

5

It's not that VAG cheated, it's that they were worse at cheating than everyone else. Nobody meets emissions regulations. This is a weird hill to die on. 

FSI > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 09:16

1

By that logic you shouldn’t buy a car from any company. VW is   just the scapegoat in the diesel witch hunt. I’m 100% certain that direct injected gasoline cars will be the next scapegoat. 

Nibby > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 09:19

2

I stay away from VW GTIs cause I don’t wanna be like everyone else here

Khalbali > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 09:24

0

I appreciate the reminder, I was so against them after dieselgate I backed out of the gti I was about to buy, but in the last year or so I've found myself thinking about one again or an alltrack for the missus.

whoarder is tellurium > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 09:33

2

You’re really NOx’ing  on the V olkswagen AG hard , Jeff.

jimz > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/02/2019 at 09:39

3

[ citation needed ]

jimz > FSI 03/02/2019 at 09:41

0

I doubt it.  they’re already implementing particulate reduction strategies (dual injection, gasoline particulate filters) to meet EPA Tier 3.  the previous Tier 2 regulations didn’t address PM from spark ignition engines because they were written before GDI was a common thing.  

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Nibby 03/02/2019 at 09:42

0

Don’t you want to be fighting a buyback after not having your car for 2 months?

Nibby > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 03/02/2019 at 09:44

1

Not particularly. I like being able to drive my car whenever I want.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Nibby 03/02/2019 at 09:45

0

What’s the fun in that? You might get to learn that Oppo’s favorite brand is completely overrated when you get one as a loaner !

Nibby > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 03/02/2019 at 09:45

2

tbh i never liked VW even before oppo

jimz > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 03/02/2019 at 09:50

6

yeah, it’s hard to find any large company that’s been around for a while which doesn’t have some skeletons in the closet. Mitsubishi and Kawasaki made a lot of the fighters and bombers the Imperial Japanese Navy used to attack Pearl Harbor. Daimler-Benz was quite cozy with the Nazi government and cranked out plenty of military vehicles and components for the German military.  Henry Ford’s more reprehensible prejudices are well known.  And so on...

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Nibby 03/02/2019 at 09:52

1

I was referring to the Mazda I have as a loaner. I would rather be pushing my VW, tbh. 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > duurtlang 03/02/2019 at 10:04

4

“That’s true for all manufacturers.”

I disagree.

Tesla, for example, is probably at least a little higher on the moral scale compared to VAG, Ford and GM.

And in some ways, Tesla is fighting the ‘good fight’... such as challenging anti-competitive auto dealer laws in some states.

They also make their patents available to others to help encourage innovation, unlike what GM/Chevron  tried to pull with the EV1 program and the NiMH battery patents.

Monkey B > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:06

0

every company, aside from those that are environmentally based , will lay waste to the environment when it’s a financial decision. Every.Single.One.  If we want to just hold automotive manufacturers accountable, I’m afraid you’d be walking.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:07

1

I agree. If you’re going to buy purely based on ethics, VAG as well as GM are two companies you’ll want to avoid.  You’ll also want to avoid just about any Chinese brand.  

Ford has a lousy moral history as well.

If I had to pick one auto company that is “most moral” among the group, it would be Tesla.

duurtlang > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 10:08

0

Fair enough. Most manufacturers then.

arl > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:10

2

Morality decisions on car buying? Come on, we’re talking big business here.

punkgoose17 > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:13

0

Agreed

Ash78, voting early and often > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:23

2

Ummm...my distant Jewish relatives have a few beefs with VW  that are higher up the list.

Just saying. Almost all large companies have some corruption in them somewhere. All cars are killing people and we all collectively accept the cost/benefit.

atfsgeoff > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 10:42

2

Almost everyone who drives a car is complicit in polluting the air.

Governments develop emissions tests, so the manufacturers strive to pass said tests by “teaching to the test,” similar to how public schools in the US work. Basically the cars will pass emissions test cycles, but that’s no guarantee they’ll put out similar emissions levels when driving outside of that controlled loop. Just like how scoring above 90% on all standardized tests in school is no guarantee of success in the real world.

VW cheated on the standardized test more blatantly than most, and got caught. The folks most directly responsible for it have already been indicted/jailed. That being said, every petroleum-powered vehicle emits CO2 in copious quantities, even the cleanest-burning ones.

People emit CO2 when they breathe. The breathing alone of 7 billion humans accounts for roughly 7% of the carbon dioxide emissions humanity is responsible for, from all industrial/commercial/recreational sources.

Manny05x > hethoughtofcars 03/02/2019 at 11:05

0

VW does not deserve to exist.

FSI > jimz 03/02/2019 at 12:35

0

I don’t know how particulate filters will work well with gas engines as many   people use their cars for short distance driving. Time will tell

jimz > FSI 03/02/2019 at 13:03

1

GDI engines- while dirtier than PFI- don’t produce anywhere near the volume of soot that diesels do.  Plus exhaust temps of gas engines is higher than diesels so (IIRC) GPFs are essentially self cleaning. I think the new Ranger has one.

VW Max > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 13:24

0

Are the materials in Tesla’s batteries ethically sourced? I have no idea, I’m just curious.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > VW Max 03/02/2019 at 14:24

0

Sourced from their own facility in Nevada... 

VW Max > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 14:50

0

Well that's where the batteries are made. But where do the raw materials for the batteries come from? 

jimz > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 15:16

0

They also make their patents available to others to help en courage innovation,

uh, yeah, have you actually ever read their terms on that?

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5-401b-b80d-36473d0754c7

“ Of potentially even greater consequence, the Pledge states that a company is not acting in good faith if it has asserted “ any patent right against a third party for its use of technologies relating to electric vehicles or related equipment.” Therefore, before using technology from a Tesla patent, a company must determine whether it is willing to agree not to assert its own patents against any company operating in the electric vehicle market anywhere in the world . ”

And you wonder why nobody of note has taken them up on that offer? Tesla knew damn well nobody was going to agree to those kinds of terms, but it gave them good PR because they also knew damn well their fanboys would repeat “Tesla is giving away their patents” without knowing any of the details.  Case in point- you bought it hook, line, and sinker. 

jimz > duurtlang 03/02/2019 at 15:17

0

nah, the Tesla patent thing was strictly a PR job.

jimz > VW Max 03/02/2019 at 15:18

2

don’t ask Tesla about where the cobalt comes from...

jimz > atfsgeoff 03/02/2019 at 15:21

1

yes, but the CO2 we exhale comes from the food we eat, not petroleum which has been far underground for millions of years. there’s a reason they talk about the “Carbon cycle.” organisms eat things and exhale CO2. Plants (and simple aquatic life) use CO2 to grow and reproduce. things eat the plants and exhale CO2. Plants grow and make more plants with that CO2.

the stuff we’ve been digging up and burning for the past century has been out of the carbon cycle for millions of years.

atfsgeoff > jimz 03/02/2019 at 15:45

1

True. Fortunately it is a self-correcting issue once we run out of fossil fuel.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > jimz 03/02/2019 at 16:01

0

Oh I know exactly why they’re doing that... to discourage companies from misusing the patent system to stifle innovation and stifle the development of BEVs... like what GM/ Chevron did with NiMH battery patents, like what RAMBUS tried to do with DDR RAM, and what Microsoft/SCO tried to do to Linux.

Musk has a tech background so he is wise to the shit large companies try to pull.

When you know some history and context, it makes it easy to see why a condition like that is actually REASONABLE.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > VW Max 03/02/2019 at 16:06

1

And are the sources of all the oil regular vehicles use all from ethical sources? Where do they come from?  Shall I post some pictures of women being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia?

How about the lead, acid and all the other materials in regular vehicles?

jimz > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 16:25

0

TIL patenting your inventions is “misusing the patent system.”

wow. 

VW Max > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/02/2019 at 21:30

0

Fair point. 

hethoughtofcars > jimz 03/03/2019 at 22:55

0

Of course not. I just don’t think we should give it a pass because it’s been “a few years” and the scapegoats were fired. That shit is still in the atmosphere. No one should get a pass for adding to fucking up the planet.  

hethoughtofcars > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 03/03/2019 at 22:57

0

Is it? What would be a good hill to die on?

hethoughtofcars > whoarder is tellurium 03/03/2019 at 23:23

0

Possibly. Do you think it’s not deserved though? Should we just give them a pass because it was 2014? They sell millions of cars a year, on 6 continents . So let them get away with it?

jimz > hethoughtofcars 03/03/2019 at 23:39

0

um, for the most part, no it isn’t. NOx is local pollution. it’s a problem for areas like SoCal which are in a basin and vehicle emissions can collect and build up and not be blown away by wind. but nitrogen oxides are very reactive and don’t last long in the atmosphere. they break down pretty quickly.

hethoughtofcars > jimz 03/04/2019 at 01:20

0

I don’t know where you are getting your science, but emissions don’t just conveniently get recycled. Even if they somehow magically did, the issue is still a huge corporation (the #1 automaker in the world at times!), intentionally lied and to the detriment of all of us. Some of the comments seem to imply that I’m holding onto something that is not that big of deal (all companies do it, right?) but, in the end, I don’t think a few people making a little more money now is worth endangering the health of 7 billion people. I feel terrible for my own son, who is only 11 and has absolutely no say in such a matter, has to deal with this.

A GTI may be fun to drive. It’s not worth poisoning the air.

Mercedes Streeter > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/04/2019 at 09:45

0

Some Chinese brands actually are pretty honest. They’re still in their industrial revolution and China is at the point where not everything is a bad clone of a more expensive product made with what’s basically slave labour. And in some cases, the Chinese designs are leading the pack! See: Oppo phones, Xiaomi, and OnePlus.

Tesla is hardly the most moral. They have all of the baggage of a tech company (bro culture, not the greatest for women, etc), all the baggage of a car company (underreporting injuries, cost cutting, etc) and unique problems of their own. They’ve taken an Apple approach to repairs and rebuilding. Like Apple, Tesla gets salty when you don’t go through them to replace parts and as a consequence will deactivate certain features of the vehicle. If a Tesla detects a crash (and the detector can be tripped even in a minor incident with say, a kerb) and even though the damage may have nothing to do with charging, the car may get blacklisted from the supercharger network if you repair it yourself.

I mean, Tesla was founded by two real EV enthusiasts and  doesn’t have connections with Nazis or Anti- S emitism, but if that’s how low the bar is, Tesla isn’t the only one clearing it.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > jimz 03/04/2019 at 10:44

0

No, buying patents and actively PREVENTING the use of those patents for ANY amount of licensing fee to prevent NiMH BEVs from happening is the misuse.

Stop being daft Jim.

It’s like you’ve never heard of ‘patent trolls’.

And being a patent troll is exactly what Chevron did with NiMH battery patents.

And what Tesla is doing is the exact opposite of being a patent troll... and is taking extra steps to make it harder for other companies to play the patent troll game.

jimz > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 03/04/2019 at 11:07

0

whatever